I was gonna title this “And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price you have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice” and then write “Stuck inside of America with the fascism blues again” here, but I’m not sure if that comes off like gloating and that’s honestly the last thing I want to do this morning.

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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    17 days ago

    Swinging left wouldn’t have worked either.

    There is no high horse. There is no right path. Us Americans have the critical thinking skill of an ant. The left should have fought dirty with a full blown propaganda machine, populist lies, and blatant collusion if they wanted to win, simple as that.

    It needs a leftist Trump.

    What are Republican’s gonna do… demonize democrats even more?

    • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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      17 days ago

      Swinging left wouldn’t have worked either.

      It absolutely would have. Progressive policy is insanely popular and easy to campaign on by virtue of being designed to help everyone. Do you think Bernie had such high favorably ratings because they have a thing for 80 year old white dudes?

      Tell people “healthcare will be free” or “We will cap rent and build housing that won’t cost more than 3x local median income” and then people can’t afford not to vote for you.

      Biden could have cut off arms to Israel, and hundreds of thousands of students so politically activated they’re willing to risk their degrees to protest would be doing everything in their power to keep Trump out.

      Instead they sent the police to kick the shit out of those kids, at great expense to the colleges, and called them antisemitic.

      • yeahiknow3@lemmings.world
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        16 days ago

        I’m afraid exit polls say otherwise. Kamala’s economic policies were the most left wing we’ve seen in decades (a wealth tax?). If people cared about actual economic issues, such as inequality, they’d have elected her.

        This election was lost because Latino men voted for Trump (for starters). We needed populism, not progressivism, to appeal to the small minded American voter. Don’t you see that? Most American men are misogynistic, racist psychos. And they’re unhappy. You appeal to them with populism full stop.

        • yogurt@lemm.ee
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          16 days ago

          Wealth tax to collect more money to give to Israel and the most lethal military and killing immigrants is what she ran on, she ran as a right wing populist and lost because Trump is a better right wing populist

          Small minded voters are told what to think, Harris refused to tell them to want free healthcare because that shit pisses off donors

            • yogurt@lemm.ee
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              16 days ago

              Yes, Democrats don’t know how politics works, they ask Republicans to decide which issues are important, and then argue a slightly more moderate response to those issues is best. Sometimes they accidentally win doing that, if the economy is good and people are happy with moderation, but that’s probably not going to be true any time soon.

              • Moneo@lemmy.world
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                16 days ago

                they ask Republicans to decide which issues are important

                I love this. They are so reactionary and seem almost incapable of counter messaging. I say almost because they managed it once with the tarrifs are sales tax response.

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        17 days ago

        It’s easy to get students to protest. They’re young, it’s exciting.

        Voting isn’t loud or angry, so it doesn’t feel effective. It feels like actual work. And so they skip it.

        • John Richard@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          I’m sorry, forgive me if I don’t take advice from the party that just lost. After Kamala picked Walz she was up by more than 5 points in many states that she was trailing in at the end of her campaign. People skip voting when you pick unpopular policies like Praise the Cheney’s, No Different than Zionist Joe, Billionaire Mark Cuban Is the Greatest, and Hollywood Loves Me.

          • snooggums@lemmy.world
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            16 days ago

            Yup, other than picking Walz each new thing the campaign did made me less excited aboit voting for Harris. I would have rather had Walz lead the ticket, at least he would have been an unknown white guy that the right wing propaganda would have had trouble vilifying.

            • John Richard@lemmy.world
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              16 days ago

              I don’t think the white guy thing is as important as at least he would have been someone that wasn’t directly tied to the White House that has been lying about genocide for the last year, or apartheid for the last 4 years.

                • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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                  16 days ago

                  OK, but the people who are that racist and sexist are voting republican anyway. Of the dems many mistakes, running a black woman wasn’t one of them.

                  • snooggums@lemmy.world
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                    16 days ago

                    OK, but the people who are that racist and sexist are voting republican anyway

                    No, plenty of them vote Democrat too, because the majority of the country is racist and sexist, even if it is just subconscious.

                    I’m not saying running a black woman was a mistake, just that a white man has an advantage because the population tends to favor white men.

                • gAlienLifeform@lemmy.worldOP
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                  16 days ago

                  I don’t think you’re wrong but I also have to add that I won’t accept that we just can’t run black women for offices for that reason

                  e; I should have read this thread further, it looks like other people are already discussing this

                • John Richard@lemmy.world
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                  16 days ago

                  I’m not pretending racism and sexism doesn’t exist, but that didn’t cause her to lose. I hope one day you’ll come to accept that.

    • snooggums@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      They don’t need to lie, they just need to get better at being direct and stip pulling punches or taking the high road to avoid offending moderates or whatever their stupid logic is.

      Instead of cozying up to Cheney, just call Trump a felon constantly, remind people about how he put migrants in cages and is now using durect nazi rhetoric against them. Those aren’t lies, and they jind of half assed brought them up, but they need to actually lean in hard and constantly.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        16 days ago

        They did call him a felon constantly! They plastered everything he says in every outlet, screamed his threats at the top of their lungs.

        No one cares!

        That doesn’t get you in people’s facebook, tiktok, and youtube feeds.

        Dems need a candidate who’s already famous. They need one totally unchained, unhinged, who would say awful but barely not illegal things in public, so they’re plastered on every news outlet constantly. They need someone who’s a little iffy about vaccines, who will print money and send people fat checks with their face stamped on it, who will straight up collude with the powerful in public, so calling it out does nothing.

        They need a liberal Trump.

        I’m not sure who it would be… maybe a big pop star that kinda loses their marbles? Think Taylor Swift. But the dems are not going to win a Trumpist election running someone like Bidden, Harris, Bernie, AoC or whatever.

        • turddle@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          Don’t think it has to explicitly be a shitty person but the Left definitely needs to realize it’s a popularity contest. Charisma and moxie win it cuz voters want it simple.

          Look how FDR swept Hoover. Went around promising Happy Days are Here Again and he’ll whip the government into fixing the individual’s problems. Blasted his aura on the radio and newsreels which kept voters’ eyes on him. Then kept them for 3 more terms by saying fuck the red tape and making tangible things happen (which is probably what drives people to Trump despite the different results)

          People want to back the cool guy who tells em it’ll be alright. Simple as

          • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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            15 days ago

            Then kept them for 3 more terms by saying fuck the red tape and making tangible things happen (which is probably what drives people to Trump despite the different results)

            Please don’t kill me, but I saw this appeal when Trump first ran. In 2016, his rhetoric on withdrawing from foreign wars and similar stuff, when Hillary was the other choice, was very appealing. Of course my eyes were opened wide by his actual statements/history, and then his presidency.

            I think what’s different now is the feedback loop is broken. In the 30s, I assume people connected what FDR was doing to what was happening. Everyone lived in the same reality.

            But now people live in complete personalized realities inside their phones and apps. Perception is extremely selective, issues are complicate. And just, like, looking him up on Wikipedia and news archives like I do is completely alien now. I know children and relatives who literally don’t know how to use the internet and just live in their scrolling feeds.

            • turddle@lemmy.world
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              15 days ago

              Nah you’re completely right. The appeal was that he’d push past the usual ineffectualness of politics and get things done.

              Bumble through the red tape too quickly for consequences to catch him while claiming everything as a win.

              The warping of reality hides what he’s actually doing/who he is and too many people are just red team vs blue now so will keep on supporting. They’ll think a win for him is a win for them and won’t look further to think otherwise (because who wants to think they’ve lost?).

              Almost wish Biden would’ve gone full Mr. Bean and just oopsied his way through using executive power. Oops, forgave student loans. Oops, taxed the rich. Oops, legal weed. Trump already showed the system is too slow to stop it and doing things that actually helped folks would be disastrous for any group trying to undo it once people felt the effects. Oh well…

              • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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                15 days ago

                Almost wish Biden would’ve gone full Mr. Bean and just oopsied his way through using executive power. Oops, forgave student loans. Oops, taxed the rich. Oops, legal weed. Trump already showed the system is too slow to stop it and doing things that actually helped folks would be disastrous for any group trying to undo it once people felt the effects. Oh well…

                He was trying to preserve the image of the US president as being dignified. measured and cognizant, but only now are we certain that’s not what voters want.

            • NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml
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              16 days ago

              Dems need a candidate who’s already famous. They need one totally unchained, unhinged, who would say awful but barely not illegal things in public, so they’re plastered on every news outlet constantly.

              They need a liberal Trump.

              What chuds like about Trump is that he jokes around and appears to be passionate about what he talks about, and instead of backing down when challenged, will face it head on and double down. Someone who will spit in the face of his enemies without apologizing after. Get anyone who can riff and mock their enemies while standing firm on their positions.

              They need someone who’s a little iffy about vaccines, who will print money and send people fat checks with their face stamped on it, who will straight up collude with the powerful in public, so calling it out does nothing.

              I dont think they actually like any of this, just the way he does it inspires confidence. They care very little about the actual policy specifics.

              That’s all they really want is confidence. They aren’t confident in their place within a changing world and want someone who exudes that confidence so they can delegate their trust to someone who has it where they have none.

              I only said Hasan because he’s funny, comfortable being an asshole, confident, and isn’t a pushover.

              • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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                15 days ago

                The checks, IMO, worked very well. People loved that.

                Don’t underestimate the power (and historical precedent) of simple populist policy. It’s not super effective campaigning, but its very effective at keeping someone in office.