In “who left their bag here”'s case, the gender of the person is not known because their identity isn’t known, so it doesn’t feel strange to use (for us old farts). It can take some effort to retrain your brain to use “they” when it’s a single person whose identity is known (speaking from experience as a Gen Xer).
Or the person might just be a transphobic asshole. But I like to think that most just need to educate themselves on using pronouns correctly.
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Always liked this one:
But this one is good too…
Not complaining or calling it out but I’ve seen the words in the 2nd applied to sooo many different comics. I think that’s actually kind of great that it’s so flexible 😆
I remember as a kid the teachers were desperately trying to make “he or she” a thing and told us the singular “they” would never be acceptable.
I’m personally glad that movement failed.
Teachers didn’t know vapid influencers would exist.
Someone correct me, but “you” was originally plural. The correct way to address a singular person is “thou”.
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Thou was singular subject and thee was singular object.
https://activeenglishcee.blogspot.com/2020/10/thou-thee-thy-thine-ye-meanings-usage.html
pou
Thou are correct.
*art
It was a funny comment, but I wouldn’t call it art.
*are
Trolling is a art
Okay, if you say so.
Art are correct.
If you’re introducing yourself to me, I only need your name.
So you’re going to refer to John by John’s name exclusively? Sounds a bit awkward, but okay.
When I started interacting with a non-binary person more often, the only reflexive pronoun that came to mind was ‘themselves.’ As in, “They bought themselves a pair of socks for their birthday.” It felt a bit awkward since I couldn’t shake the plural association in my head, but I still used it to be respectful.
Then I remembered that the word ‘themself’ exists and I felt stupid.
I get irked when someone says “he or she,” especially repeatedly, because the singular “they” is so much easier to hear and read.
Dear native English speakers, would you mind inventing a new word either for gender-neutral third-person singular pronoun, or one for what “they” mean to foreign English speakers since you are so insisted in differing its meaning from the text books you shipped us decades ago?
English is so inconsistent at this point. Only the third-person pronouns have gender in singular form, the plural form has no gender and now you are telling us the gender-less form can be singular now? How confusing!
English is widespread partly because it has simple alphabet and relatively easy grammar. I don’t mind someone being in LGBT+ group at all, but could you please don’t mess with the language?
English is so inconsistent at this point.
At this point? At this very point, specifically due to the historically valid usage of one gender neutral pronoun? Now is the time that it’s finally become an inconsistent language? Singular “they” is the thing that has pushed English over the edge from logical and sensical to arbitrary and confusing? Of all the foibles and quirks, this is the one that is simply unforgivable and must be changed?
I didn’t say anything you said.
I think a more sensible way to include LGBT+ group is to just make “she/her” obsolete. We are all “he/him”, and we are “they/them” when in a group. Way cleaner than this, excuse me, shit that we foreign English speakers have to adjust to for every few years.
We agree. We make he/him obsolete and we’re all she/her, as there are more female people on the planet, so less people have to adapt
As the comic shows, “they” (“their,” in this case) was already used as a singular when the gender was unknown. The only change is it’s now also used if the person’s gender is known and isn’t “he” or “she.”
In Finnish language there are no gender specific pronouns only gender neutral one hän/hänen.
They/them still sounds weird to use even if I know it can be used to refer single person. When talking or writing fast I’ll still often accidentally default to using he/him even for females which I then have to correct.
In my language everything little word is gendered so everything you talk about is bound by it. It’s extremely confusing thinking or understanding how to describe something in terms “non-gendered”.
I really am supportive of all the changes needed in the world, but the use of “they” is very confusing in a singular form for people who don’t have it as first language and concepts and everything was learned by mapping stuff to other language, so please invent some word for it and go with it. It’s already strange and always difficult understanding the usage of “you” in singular vs plural and formal or not speech.
I really wish my language also had gender neutral pronouns, it just sound so much simpler and better.
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Ok, hear me out, super supportive, but I had an issue when a friend’s husband wanted me to use “their.”
No no, hear me out.
Well… that is entirely a you problem. You should do a little soul searching to figure out why it is so difficult for you to pay someone dear to someone you call a friend the bare minimum amount of respect.
Would you be upset if your friends constantly misgendered you, then acted like you were the asshole because you took issue with it?
Don’t use it then.
The only time you would ever need to use someone’s pronouns is when they’re not part of the conversation anyway.
I couldn’t care less what people refer to me as if I’m not there.
The only time you would ever need to use someone’s pronouns is when they’re not part of the conversation anyway.
no? it would be weird to use in a one-on-one conversation, true. but it is fairly common to use the third person pronoun of someone during a group conversation, even while they are there
I don’t do this, and growing up was taught that it was rude to refer to someone by anything other than their name in a group conversation.
it is fairly common to use the third person pronoun of someone during a group conversation, even while they are there
But is improper to do so. The proper way to refer to a person who is present is by using their name.
maybe i have never been in proper situations, then, because in my experience, people will use pronouns or names indistinctly
maybe i have never been in proper situations
Indeed. More information on proper communication for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization
“I was with Dan the other day. They forgot their keys at home. They said they had to go back to get them.”
Literally not hard at all?
“I was with Dan (they/them) and Steve the other day. They hadn’t brought a poster they needed and went back to the car to get it.”
This demonstrates the semantic problem with using “they” as a pronoun: it isn’t clear who went back to the car, (1) just Dan or (2) both Dan and Steve. Nor is it clear who needed the poster and who hadn’t brought it.
You’re going out of your way to create a problem that doesn’t exist. Just Dan? Say Dan went back to the car. Both Dan and Steve? Say they both went back to the car.
If you just don’t respect people’s identity then admit you’re bigoted instead of hiding behind faulty logic.
You’re going out of your way to create a problem that doesn’t exist.
The problem does exist, that’s why you’re making suggestions about how to work around the problem. I’ve been confused before by people using “they” as a pronoun in exactly this sense. I’m not going out of my way to create a problem, it’s a problem that I’ve experienced IRL. Please don’t try to invalidate my experience.
If you just don’t respect people’s identity then admit you’re bigoted instead of hiding behind faulty logic.
You’re jump to conclusions.
You’re jump to conclusions
Lol. Alright buddy, I’m done here.
You’re not going to bother to point out the fault in my logic?
If you’re with Dan (they/them) and Dan (he/him), you would also have the problem when saying
“I was with Dan and Dan the other day. Dan hadn’t brought the poster, so Dan went back to the car to get it.”
So to avoud confusion, people should not be allowed to be called Dan anymore. In fact everyone gets a UUID so there is no more confusion.
you would also have the problem when saying …
You would have a problem but it would not be the same problem as in my example. The problem here is not because of the choice of pronoun.
Well it kinda is. Pronouns are like names, in the sense that we use them to describe to whom we refer.
They are a non injective function on the name set.
The restriction you would like to make is that the function is not multivalued. But it is. As an example, Andrea is a name that is usually associated with a female person, but it is a normal name for male people in Italy.
We allowed people to be named whatever they wanted (or their parents wanted), so why not also let them choose whatever pronoun they prefer?
Well it kinda is.
I disagree.
Pronouns are like names
Pronouns are not names.
allowed
That’s the second time you’ve used the word “allow”. That’s very telling.
