Look man. I use my computer primarily for gaming, with a little web browsing. The second Linux can support all games without me having to wrangle and worry about compatibility, plus whatever else config shit I have to go through that I’m sure I’m unaware of, I’ll jump ship headfirst. I’m fucking sick of Microsoft’s bullshit.
I decided to spend a day debugging linux boot failure, which I found to be caused by the Nvidia driver.
Beginner friendly??? Not sure how to explain this to Linux users that post on Lemmy but we’re not the regular pc user and have a very different view on beginner friendly lol
This entire thread talking about how a distro is better than the next because you “only” have to update keyrings to update so even basic users should get it.
Yeah, one of the biggest reasons people won’t try Linux isn’t necessarily because it is difficult, but because it would require learning anything at all. Never underestimate how much effort a person is willing to make to avoid making an effort.
I’m a programmer at a tech company. Last month, I tried setting up two different distros on my personal computer, in anticipation of Windows 10 EOL.
I experienced:
- Total failure of wifi drivers
- Graphical corruption returning from sleep mode
- Inability to load levels in Deck-certified games
- Critical input delays in a reflex-based online game
- Inability to install a particular Linux-native app on my particular distro; not only unavailable by main package manager, but also by its alternative container-based strategy.
- Right-click menus that hid the options I’m used to finding on Windows, with no visible way to turn them on.
- Repeated overriding of my customization of keyboard shortcuts
- Inability to assign Ctrl+Tab as a keyboard shortcut for a terminal app (Tab was unrecognized)
- UI forms altering my selection when I was attempting to scroll past them
- No discernible methods to pin frequently used folders to the sidebar of the file explorer
- No discernible way to remove/edit Application entries (leading to games that I created an entry though off Steam’s install dialog being stuck there even after the game was deleted)
So no, don’t keep telling me I’m staying on Windows out of idiocy. If someone replies to this with a doctoral on why every single issue is actually somehow my fault, it completes the trifecta.
Linux distros need to take a step back for a long, lengthy discussion on good user experience before they rush back to making memes like these.
This. I need to get work done, not work on my os.
I tried setting up two different distros
Would you mind telling what were the two distros you were trying to setup just for reference?
I installed Distro A, and Distro B, and you’re about to reply:
“Oh, well there’s your problem! A and B aren’t great for beginners (even though you read they were from someone else). I’d strongly recommend, C, D, E, or F.”
Whether it’s installing a new distro off new recommendations or spending time tinkering to get one of them working right, it’s still the same annoyance, and it’s unlikely to change. That said, if you have read that and will restrain from jabbing back about it or are just genuinely curious:
Distros
Linux Mint 21, then Linux Mint 22, then Bazzite
Ehhh…as a Linux beginner on Ubuntu I disagree… I spent a couple hours trying to get an AppImage application as a desktop icon.
Spent an additional hour or two to mount NAS drives. Fstab?? Wtf.
My secondary monitor flickers to black randomly for a just couple minutes after startup and there’s no way I’m going to dig through Wayland to figure out why. Monitor orientation is incorrect on startup and I again don’t want to dig through Wayland or whatever cfg file I need to open…yet.
Still needed to browse at least 5 different sources for answers.
I’m glad Firefox doesn’t crash at 500 tabs or w/e but Linux still has issues with some primitive tasks that windows has well figured out.
It’s funny because as somebody that’s been using Linux full-time for over 10 years I actually really really really really hate that Ubuntu is considered beginner friendly because I often find very very simple tasks incredibly frustrating on it.
I know that everybody disagrees with me but I genuinely think that something based on arch like Endeavor OS is genuinely more beginner friendly. You don’t have to fight with repositories to get up to date drivers, virtually any piece of software you could ever want is either already in the extra/community repo or available through the Aur. And while yes it is possible that an update could end up causing an issue on your system Pac-Man is just way way better about not completely destroying the system and it is pretty easy to roll back. Even in a really really bad worst case scenario booting from a live USB and rolling back with chroot is easy enough I’ve actually walked people through it before.
Meanwhile the amount of times on both Debian and Ubuntu that I have had apt completely eviscerate a system just trying to do basic updates and then just bail out Midway leaving the system so broken that the terminal barely functions anymore is frustrating. And there’s no particularly easy path to fixing that because dpkg is a fucking nightmare. Yes in the majority of those cases the system was multiple years out of date but that’s no excuse I have updated art systems that were upwards of almost 10 years out of date and other than me having to manually update the key ring and reinitialize the signatures it was able to Simply jump right to the latest just fine.
True, even user-friendly Linux distros have their pain points. The real difference between Linux and corporate OS products is that you don’t periodically need a new version because of a product churn schedule.
🤔not sure if it is true frustration or just a great meme
I wish I could use Linux at work but the software used does not have any alternative (that I can use) and I can’t be bothered with debloating and all that jazz. I try to keep work and private seperate instead.
Teams.
I fucking hate teams.
Why are we using teams.
Why did they change outlook, it used to actually be good.
There used to be a linux repo for installing teams but they recently removed it. Now you’re forced to use the shitty excuse of a PWA.
Either way I’m stuck on W11 at work. No way am I installing teams on my machine at home.
How modern, I can’t believe your computers support Windows 11.
Why should my computer not be able to supprot Windows 11?
Because of the requirements like TPM2 and a bunch of of others.
Most places I know need to replace all their devices to support Windows 11. For the workload they are expected to run that hardware was fine.
To me the funniest part is that telemetry is usually for ads to convince people to buy stuff, and secondly for nation states to track you, but the debloat crowd usually never leaves home (a registered address) or buys anything, and surprisingly apt at credit card points with the money they do spend (the og trackers).
I get your point. I would asume that those who chose to remove adware and remove telemetry would also be the same group that use ad blockers.
Android and iOS already replaced Windows for normies.
True - remember Windows phones? Me neither.
This won’t be popular but I haven’t had a stability problem on my home Windows 11 pro (server) machine. I disabled online login during first boot setup so maybe that’s why … my network handles telemetry shenanigans so I’m not worried about that. Never bothered to put a Linux on it, which was the plan, since it’s not failed once, it’s been a few years since it was spooled up. 🤷🏼♂️
How is your network handling telemetry shenanigans?
Eero Secure does a pretty decent job by itself but addresses can be blacklisted as well (hi Roku). If I had more money, time, and could figure out my double NAT, I’d probably switch from Secure to a Firewalla device, probably a Purple. Overall the eero’s have been a great, I don’t have to think about it, mesh system. Of course you have to be okay with Amazon owning them.
I found it impossible to set up 11 pro without a Microsoft account. Did you put one in for install and disable it after?
On 10 if you cut network access during install it’d let you set up offline accounts. On 11 it refuses to finish the installation until you connect to the internet somehow. I had to put my linux laptop in AP mode and connect a patch cable to the windows PC because i hadnt loaded the wifi drivers on the USB i had.
Shift +f10 to open a command prompt in the installer
OOBE\bypassnro
It reboots and restarts the out of box experience, but this time ‘I don’t have internet’ will be available as an option
Bonus tip, don’t choose a password either, as it will force stupid recovery questions. You can add that after first boot with net user on the command line.
Thanks! I appreciate learning the magic incantation
Some command line shenanigans if I remember. Not sure that still works on newer patches.
Let me guess… its a laptop isn’t it?
My experience is the opposite.
Took an hour just to get a mouse to work on Mint
Still have an absolute mess on Linux Mint with my projector, wrong aspect ratios everywhere, sometimes only one screen is selected. Maybe it has something to do with how and when I connected/booted/powered each device…
That’s wild. Mice are a generic driver just like on Windows. It should be plug and play on either OS.
Why did it take an hour? Any idea what was happening?
Honestly I’ve found most distros pretty solid. It’s just the software that can be buggy. Gnome for me crashes on gpu’s with 4gb of vram, like the rx 5500 and 1650. Steam is better now but I remember the interface being very jank. Left clicking something just made the drop down menu disappear and not actually select it. A lot of programs still not scaling right on Wayland even tho xorg has been dead for years on years. Ect…
But even with all these issues I’ve had recently and not so recently… Still so much better than windows
Where did the ‘windows resets all settings after an update’ thing start?
Somehow I’ve never seen this over using windows 10 for years…
TBF it’s only happened to me once on 8.1 and once on 10. I think it’s an uncommon bug
My home firewall blocks ads and telemetry, no matter device/OS.
Maybe M$ one day decided make Windows unbootable because it cannot connect to somesussymicrosoftprivacyviolater.com
It still would have to get past my firewall to try to make it so.
So your firewall is going to prevent OS updates?
It already does. I like to review the updates and wait a while to see if they cause any issues. When I’m confident with the updates, I temporarily remove the block from the firewall.
I love Linux, a lot. I’ve distro hopped and tinkered to my hearts content. But I can’t let windows go, which is why I dual-boot with Windows 11 and currently, Bazzite.
Windows doesn’t have the ghub for my logitech mouse and headset. I can’t use my plugins for elite dangerous or extra software, like EDMC. Many games don’t work for various reasons (anti-cheat, or many other reasons). Can’t say, “well don’t play those games.”. Well, I want to. I like those games, and they don’t work on linux.
There is no AMD Adrenaline for my AMD GPU. I can’t use frame gen or many other features my card has. Battle.net games just refuse to work for me, try as I might to follow every tutorial ever (I just wanted to play Diablo IV T_T ). Those features are important to me.
OBS is much crappier on linux than on windows, due to no AV1 encoding support. As a streamer, AV1 looks MUCH better than whatever linux obs uses.
And lastly, Windows (even Windows 11), just works with everything. Any software you want, you just install it. On steam you don’t have to check proton.db, you’re 100% guaranteed for it to work. Any software you see, it works on windows. Any peripherals, just work. All their associated software, works.
I know not everyone games, but it’s the highest grossing entertainment market, so it’s important to more people than not.
According to a report by SuperData Research, the global gaming market was valued at $159.3 billion in 2020. This includes revenue from console games, PC games, mobile games, and esports. To put that in perspective, the music industry was valued at $19.1 billion in 2020, while the movie industry was valued at $41.7 billion. That means the gaming industry is making more than three times as much money as the music industry and almost four times as much as the movie industry. source
And lastly, Windows (even Windows 11), just works with everything. Any software you want, you just install it. On steam you don’t have to check proton.db, you’re 100% guaranteed for it to work. Any software you see, it works on windows.
This is not my experience at all. I was recently trying to play Command and Conquer: Tiberian Firestorm, an older RTS on Windows. I own the game through Steam. On Windows, the game wont open. It crashes immediately on launch. If i run the game in XP compatibility mode, it launches but when playing the game there is some sort of microstutter: every unit is blinking, the mouse cursor is blinking, and the game plays at a crawling pace. Also everything freezes whenever you move the camera.
When i boot into Fedora on the same PC, install with steam and launch with Proton, the game works fine. I was even able to install a resolution patch for windows to get higher resolutions available.
I find this to be a pretty common experience for me when trying to play older Windows PC games. There are quite a few I cant seem to get working (or playable) on Windows, but that work fine on Linux. I mostly play older games anyway so for me, Linux is more of a game console OS.
Sorry to hear Battlenet doesn’t work for you. D4 is another one i play only on Linux, in thas case because i get some weird graphical artefacts when playing on Windows. I haven’t bought the new expansion yet though, maybe after the holidays are over.
Battle.net for me wouldn’t install in steam as an extra app, it wouldn’t work in heroic, but lutris was happy to do it, and the performance is excellent. Linux mint.
Battle.net games just refuse to work for me, try as I might to follow every tutorial ever (I just wanted to play Diablo IV T_T ). Those features are important to
Battlenet games just working on Linux and not working on Windows is what drove me to uninstalling Windows
And lastly, Windows (even Windows 11), just works with everything. Any software you want, you just install it.
How did you get Mac apps to run and the Metro desktop on w11? I suppose you can get Gnome Web to work through WSL
What I have heard on coding shows is making the Windows game available for Linux is clicking a check box for export/compile for Linux. And companies don’t.
Urm. No. In a few cases thats true, but for most complex systems, or even just ones that rely on non-default engine extensions (a category that includes nearly all games), they really do need work invested into them. Steam and proton are are making this better but its really not at ‘just check a box’ levels of ease yet.
Just conveying what coders say, can’t comment on which engines. But since Linux doesn’t care what binary it loads into memory to execute it doesn’t seem hard to support a translation layer.
I’m very curious what those coders meant! For what it’s worth, what you’re describing is essentially Proton and it has been extremely difficult to develop and requires a great deal of ongoing support. Cross-compiling is super hard, its the reason Android runs on (essentially) the JVM and that windows implemented UWP, and its the root cause behind driver compatability issues. I’m just not sure what you mean, I guess.
I assume since the Linux kernel doesn’t care what executable code gets run in memory, it was an engine that adda info for system call translations. Could be wrong, they did not elaborate.
Another day another cope post
