It is amazing to me how short our memories are as a species. There are people who are still in congress who had polio. There are an estimated 300,000 people still alive in the US who survived polio. Even with that, the nominated head of Health and Human Services wants to do away with the polio vaccine.
I don’t know what the problem is. Is it a lack of empathy? Is it willingness to swallow the bait surrounding conspiracy theories? Is it just a lack of education? How did we get to the point where it is even remotely okay for the future head of Heath and Human Services to be against the polio vaccine?
If being pro-polio isn’t disqualifying for being the head of HHS, and if he gets confirmed, the U.S. will have very clearly shown that it is in rapid decline. It will have shown that the government is corrupt to its core and is irredeemable.
Is it a lack of empathy?
Yes, it’s a disregard for human life
I think that is true for some of the people involved, but I think it is much more complicated than that. There are many people who think vaccines do more harm than good because they believe conspiracy theories and junk science. Not everyone against vaccines is malicious. Some must be, though, for such bullshit to keep propagating the way that it does.
I disagree. People are always assholes first and then look for rationalisations for their assholery. All that conspiracy bullshit always leads back to racism and antisemitism.
Please explain how the earth being flat, birds not being real, bigfoot, ufo’s, and the moonlanding being a hoax have ANYTHING to do with racism and antisemitism.
Even with that, the nominated head of Health and Human Services wants to do away with the polio vaccine.
…I’m sorry, what?
GOD DAMMIT! GET LUIGI MORE BULLETS! THE JOB’S NOT DONE!!!
Oh yeah we’re so fucked. As well as believing that vaccines cause autism, RFK believes that HIV doesn’t lead to AIDS. He literally believes that “something about the gay lifestyle” causes it.
RFK Jr tried this before in 2022. He’s been trying to get the FDA to revoke approval for the vaccine, probably to snowball it into “we need to revoke all vaccine approvals”.
My dad remembers from his childhood occasionally seeing houses placed under quarantine for diseases like measles and then at some point thanks to vaccines measles pretty much just stopped being a thing in most of the US. He got his polio and smallpox vaccines back in the day, and has lived to see smallpox eradicated and polio nearly so.
My grandfather was born a couple years after the 1918 flu pandemic, he had a brother born a couple years before him who died in infancy, he never talked about it much but the timing lines up that his brother was likely a victim of that pandemic. It was certainly something he heard talked about in his childhood just as we’ll probably keep talking about COVID for years to come, and I think it definitely left an impact on him, he always was wary about passing germs along to his grandchildren, he always warned our parents against kissing us and never did himself, the only time he did was on his literal deathbed (cancer, nothing communicable) when he kissed my sister (in a non-creepy familial way) as probably one of his last conscious acts.
He was never one to shy away from a fight, I would have loved to see the hell he would have raised against anti-maskers if he’d lived another decade or so. There are people his age or older still walking among us. These things aren’t even out of living memory, we’re barely a handful of generations removed from them.
The chickenpox vaccine was introduced when I was in elementary school. I remember a lot of children’s shows when I was growing up having a chickenpox episode where one or more of the main characters would get chickenpox, they’d take oatmeal baths and slather on calamine lotion to ease the itching, their parents would discuss having their friends over to get them infected early and give them immunity, etc. It kind of seemed like it was inevitable that many if not most kids would get chickenpox eventually, and at the time it kind of was. The vaccine was still optional at the time, and I remember a lot of discussion about it not being very effective, but a lot of kids in my age range got it, and the number of kids in my school who got chickenpox was probably in the dozens instead of probably hundreds just a few years earlier.
There have been some missteps along the way, my dad had a small hepatitis scare when a blood test turned up antibodies (though no active infection) likely from exposure from reused vaccine needles when he was in the army. The US did a grave disserve to polio vaccination efforts by using them as a cover to track down bin Laden and increased distrust in the vaccine in the process. There have been cases where vaccines have used ingredients that have proven unsafe, where people have had adverse reactions, etc. but still overall, the fact that I have never met anyone who has had smallpox, polio, or measles and probably never will speaks volumes about how much more good than harm vaccines do when 100 years ago I would almost certainly have known people who had died or left disabled or disfigured by those diseases.
There are people who are still in congress who had polio.
Mitch has done nothing but enable the incoming administration, and helped to get it in power, so he has no leg to stand on now in all of his hand waving about the polio vaccine.
Mitch as the Repub leader could have prevented all of this, by voting and allowing other R senators to vote to convict in either the first impeachment or the second impeachment, which would have prevented Trump from being able to run again (and the trials against him would likely have been carried out by now). McConnell bears a huge amount of responsibility for where we are right now.
Sometimes it feels like it’s all done to grab headlines.
It works, they eat cats and dogs.
If something is irredeemable, it’s not the government, it’s the voters.
All of this could be fixed if just enough people understood the truth.
The problem is that we have so little media that is both trusted and trustworthy. That so many people don’t actively seek out reliable information and think critically about it. Many just find a source that confirms their bias and feeds their emotional state, while others just passively absorb from those around them and on social media. And once you’ve bought the lies and misinformation, anyone that tries to tell you the truth becomes suspicious, because you know they are wrong.
And because the never ending stream of bullshit is both a lucrative industry and a source of immense political power, there is a vested interest in keeping it highly polarized and partisan. They have to tie it to your identity and tell you that this is what your country stands for, so that you know that everyone who disagrees is an enemy.
Anti-vaxxers are nothing new, but they were never so openly embraced by a political party (to say nothing of those who have claimed that vaccines are suddenly against their religion, discovering a prohibition that no religion has ever had prior to 2020). They don’t care how many people will suffer or die because of their actions, as long as they can benefit from it politically. Sadly, this is a fairly consistent theme on the right.
History should be mandatory especially to vote. Some people don’t even remember the holocaust and they’re repeating it again.
There are many influences. One is pure resentment of elites as know-it-alls which propagandists amplify. A bit of Dunning–Kruger effect at the same time as people without specialized training can’t even comprehend what they don’t know. Another is how difficult it is to think probabilistically so that people can’t easily appreciate risk. And as more and more people proclaim conspiracy theories as truth there is peer pressure to confirm.
It’s because polio is a developing world problem now. Until it comes back to the US the only relevancy it has is as foreign aid. And that’s forbidden by these guys unless it’s guns.
I used to think one of the biggest reasons there’s so many antivaxx people is that, because they’re so effective, people no longer have the fear of seeing their children in an iron lung, struggling to breathe. Then Covid respirators happened and antivaxx fucks somehow got worse
Most people on this planet are idiots.
The average person is quite stupid and about half the people are even stupider (sic)
😆 what do you mean dude
It’s also why Trump is president-elect currently. People are stupid and are forgetting just how bad things can be.
I used to think one of the biggest reasons there’s so many antivaxx people is that, because they’re so effective, people no longer have the fear of seeing their children in an iron lung, struggling to breathe.
Yes, I think that’s absolutely right. The antivaxxers are people who didn’t experience what it was like before vaccines.
Then Covid respirators happened and antivaxx fucks somehow got worse
I think part of it is that the effects of Covid were hidden from the public. The hospitals didn’t let anyone in to see the rows of beds with people on respirators, so the public didn’t see that on the news. They showed the refrigerated trucks but not the bodies in the trucks. So in the “pics or it didn’t happen” timeline we’re in, people didn’t believe it was that bad. Even the aftereffects of long covid are barely recognized or mentioned. The whole thing has been bizarre.
In olden times, everyone saw the dead bodies openly carried off on carts, or saw piles of them buried in mass graves. Their relatives died right there in front of them, not hidden away in a hospital where they themselves weren’t allowed to enter. Before, everyone directly experienced the crisis and suffering it caused. This time, the ugly reality was hidden from most of us other than the direct caregivers.
Side note: during the Vietnam war, reporters and camera crews were there and it was all shown on TV, the bodies, the wounded, the chaos. But the powers that be learned lessons from the horrified reaction of the public: do not show your failures on TV; keep your population in the dark. And we never saw our war casualties on TV again. Cameras were there, but we were shown nothing but scripted “reality TV”, if anything at all.
They followed the same script with Covid. This is supposed to be the information age but we’re more in the dark than ever. Real information is either not provided or is buried in misinformation. Remember the Florida whistleblower who leaked how the State was skewing their covid statistics and was quickly arrested and smeared?
My brother had to be convinced to get the vaccine.
He’s legitimately removed (I’m trying to say “re-tar-ded”, but apparently it automatically saying “removed.” Seriously? We’re not allowed to say “re-tar-ded”, a completely accurate medical term?) and had to go to a special school because of it.
I think a lot of conservatives fall into this camp, but don’t realize it because of how poor social programs are in red states.
Maybe we’re going about this the wrong way. We know what kind of country we live in, a nation of proud, almost patriotic willful ignorance. By design. An laborer ignorant to who is fucking them is a dependable laborer, after all.
So in the spirit of playing to the audience we have, have we tried rebranding the “vaccines” as, and I’m just spitballing here, Freedom Blessings, Robert E Lee Juice, The Joe Rogan Vein Experience, or the Prove You Hate Commies Test?
I had a thought along the same lines. I was thinking we should coin the term “immunition,” and tell people it was a way to arm your immune system to defend itself. It’s not even all that misleading.
I think it has more to do with an authority figure telling them to do something. I think we’d have to distract them like we do children getting a shot. Instead of a toy beer we could use a talking revolver?
I think it has more to do with an authority figure telling them to do something
Which is weird, because they love authority figures
They love authority figures telling other people what to do. Freedom is me being free to do what I want and you being free to do what I want.
Instead of a toy beer we could just give them a real beer.
Get the NRA (the New Resistance Augmentation) into supporting immunition imports!
I can find no fault in this whatsoever. Nothing else seems to get through to them, not even death.
In 1955… Most people personally knew someone aflicted with polio. They knew how bad it was
In Appalachia, it was unlikely to not know someone on a vent or dead from Covid, yet…
Fox News tells you not to believe your eyes, and conservatives trust Fox News more than their own eyes.
Their final, most essential command.
I knew three people who died from COVID and another after they recovered from COVID, unfortunately unless it’s their direct family they would just assume ‘theyre just making it all out to be covid’
I assume most people would blame social media for this, but here’s my c/unpopularopinions take, it’s inevitable with a profit oriented news platform, where they try to scaremonger in both ‘we are all going to die’ and ‘government is putting chips in our bloodstream’ directions
In other nations, unless a blunder by government policy, they werent as affected by the anti vaccine shenanigans, even though they were as affected by social media and such
Dude my grandmother died of Covid in August pf 2020, and yet my father and his sister who is a nurse and gave her the dease arge to this day weather covid is bullshit or not. AT HER funeral they argued about mask mandates. Maga brains will watch millions die from covid, and polio and still call it fake news.
And then there’s my ex who after COVID took nearly 9 months (!) to get normal use of their lung again. Fuck people who go all “COVID is bullshit”.
Trust me. I’ve been along live enough to recognize that if people don’t want to believe something, then they won’t.
NGL, I was choked up in my car when I was lined up for my very first COVID jab.
Honestly thought it was over, and the events since have informed much of my cynicism about our species.
Polio can’t be compared to COVID when you talk about vaccines.
COVID mutates like the flu, meaning a vaccine was never meant to eradicate it. It simply can’t.
COVID vaccines still help to prevent severe illness, but it was never a permanent cure.
People were morons, but even if we all did what we were told to do, COVID would still exist.
My favorite thing about social media is people who argue for no good reason other than to entertain themselves.
No I don’t.
/s
To be fair, there was a chance. If 8 billion humans observed quarantine properly and vaccinated we would destroy all forms of influenza.
Didn’t we do that? Now my kid is bringing home a different strain every other day
In theory yes, but it’s just not realistic for the whole world. In the western world, yes, we can isolate us if we want. It’s just not that easy everywhere.
I said a chance. Not that it was a big one.
You going too deep with it.
It has gotten a lot better 😀
Quite the difference from how half the US population reacted to a Covid vaccine. The power of political propaganda and social media conspiracy theories.
And how those same people are cheering about Captain Brainworm’s intentions to discontinue the polio vaccine.
Behold the power of mass lead poisoning. We truly live in the most stupid timeline.
I think this is just the US returning to its pre super power roots. More and more it seems like the last 80 years were seen exception and now they are returning back to where they were before the world wars.
The rise of the middle class in the 50s has definitely been proven to be an anomaly in our history.
(edit: I think I misunderstood your comment so deleting my comment which wouldn’t have made sense)
Haha, no worries. I did find it a bit confusing. All good though.
I think if COVID was leaving people paralyzed it would never have been what it became. The fallout from COVID was bad but maybe not bad enough.
I remember semi trailers being used as morgue extensions at hospitals. Every ventilator in the nation being claimed. People rasping out a good bye over FaceTime before going on a ventilator to probably die. It claimed a million people and the only reason that isn’t the official number is because Trump and the GOP refused to count the bodies.
It was absolutely bad enough. But humans are capable of great self deception.
“We’re not gonna make it, are we? Humans I mean” -John Connor- Terminator 2
“It’s in your nature to destroy yourselves”
-the terminator
I could feel my dread go as I heard that lines over the years, as a young teen? Of course we will we always have, we endure. As a middle aged adult? I’m not so sure we aren’t going to shove ourselves back to the cave man era and not enough people will listen to anyone with survival knowledge for the species to survive.
Then I think about how many species that must have and will happen to in this vast universe, so we’ll probably be an average result heh in the grand scheme of things that is.
RFK jr is going to kill and cripple a lot more kids if he gets the chance to. He’ll make pretend polio / measles is eradicated and then somebody will get on a plane where there are cases, and it will spread amongst the unvaxxed and kids will die. When this happens he should be charged with negligent homicide but I doubt that will happen.
But he don’t care, because:
- It mostly kills poor people
- He is vaccinated
- His kids are vaccinated
- He couldn’t give any less fucks about people if you paid him for it. And he is being paid to not give a fuck about people’s lives.
RFK and conspiracy thinking right alongside Luigi are ALL symptoms indicating the same problem: a health care system that enriches CEOs at the bankruptcy and death of the masses.
At base it’s like the Hepatitis C cure when it rolled out. A $ amount is put on this cure, only X number of people get it each month, up to a certain $ amount across all claimants, and the rest are SOL. Healthcare itself is like that. We did 18 NICU babies already this month, or we did 32 cardiac cath procedures this month, time to delay, deny, defend.
Wouldn’t it be cool if you could figure a way around needing that healthcare? If you could do 6 simple steps that are entirely under your own power, cheaply or for free, and fix your health on your own? What a dream that would be. This need for health independence is as predictable as a Luigi.
RFK is like a cherry on the shit sundae of our present system. He’s symbolic of the need for something other that we can maybe have more control over. Unfortunately, drinking raw milk has a higher potential of adding more problems.
drinking raw milk
will be the least of our problems from RFK. He killed more than 20 children in Samoa with his smallpox vaccine denial.
This deserves a link.
Although I think this article downplays his involvement by using weasel words. I started to look for one that stated it more clearly but then I’m no better than idiots looking to have their bias confirmed.
People have opposed vaccines since they were first introduced. I find your explanation just trying to force it into the current discussion around health insurance.
I would argue that it’s primarily because some people can’t fathom that the world is a chaotic place and shit just happens without sinister forces making it happen. Its exactly why the devil is such a popular theme in Christianity, because they need some evil force acting behind the scenes to justify the fact that absolutely terrible things happen while also believing in some supremely powerful and benevolent God.
With the pandemic, and people losing their shit because they were in lock down, the idea that this evil force was making it happen and fucking with them really took hold…and that made the “freedom” from it, a vaccine, a very good target for people pushing their conspiracy theories that this was a good way to push some sinister agenda…and with the amount of fear at the time, people were susceptible. Once you’ve opened the door for vaccines being a vehicle for sinister agenda, that just opens the door for questioning previous vaccines as well.
Everything you’ve said is correct. The basic chaos and statistics of life is too much to process for some people. However, the number of vaccine deniers is now a movement, and growing, and being given lip service by people in charge. That doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
We are both correct in our main assertions.
That doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
I agree. And I think that non-vacuum isn’t that our health system is whack, but that we just went through a traumatizing time as a society that left people very fearful and looking for answers. It’s a convenient and easy one that the conmen are more than happy to advantage of for their personal gain.
I guess I see our positions as very different. . .you attribute it to people trying to avoid our healthcare system, I see it as people just looking for something to blame for how crappy shit was during the pandemic; our healthcare system has been shit for a long time, but the rise to prominence of this anti-vaccine movement happened during the pandemic. I don’t think the timing is coincidental.
But I appreciate the cordial response.
As someone inside the healthcare system, I can confidently state that COVID simply brought out a lot of festering problems that already existed. The pandemic didn’t create those problems, it revealed them.
The one “but” here is that COVID did help speed up the timeline on doctor/nurse/caregiver burnout as well and create a bottleneck in getting care due to sheer numbers which is still happening right now. How long are you waiting for your next PCP appointment, or to get established with one? (One example).
And as another “but”. What I just said above was already the trajectory of the system. We simply had a little healthcare “inflation” that sped all of that up.
We are entering a stupid age, for which we may never recover.
I’d argue we ushered in the Stupid Age in November of 1980.
I agree though, we never recovered.
for which we may never recover.
um, it’s FROM which, not “for which”
you wouldn’t say “I’ll never recover for this”, would you?
I’ll never recover for this comment
On the other hand, half a century earlier-
So I guess the stupid waxes and wanes?
Something something smart people make good times that makes stupid people that make hard times that makes smart people?
You know I wonder how much of this is because we stopped doing pubic service announcements for a while?
Oh how humanity hath fallen
Not all of humanity. Mostly America and some Europe with the epidemic of willful ignorance
And then we ingested a bunch of lead through our lungs
Too bad that’s not the great America some people wants to bring back. Nobody would mind this one.
The smart America is blocking the way of Trump Facism
If anything, this should tell us the trolls won.
Or at least have been more successful then they ever should have been.
