• lousyd@lemmy.sdf.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    8
    arrow-down
    22
    ·
    1 month ago

    …says the guy on Lemmy criticizing the U.S. government and not getting thrown in jail for it.

    • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 month ago

      You do understand that free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated everywhere, right? Us having more free speech here is just a function of the US government feeling more secure in its power, you can still find examples of free speech being punished in the US when it has threatened its power.

      • lousyd@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        1 month ago

        Then China must feel real threatened. According to this, it’s against the law in China to even say you don’t agree with the law.

        “A citizen, when exercising the right of freedom of the press, shall abide by the Constitution and the law, and shall not oppose the basic principles established by the Constitution or damage the interests of the State, the society or the collective, or the lawful freedom and rights of other citizens.”

        A million Uyghurs, whose only apparent crime is being Muslim, have been sent to labor camps and undergone forced sterilization.

        Tiananmen Square started out as people peacefully protesting government corruption, and ended in the state murdering them.

        With respect to free speech, there’s not even a comparison there with respect to America. It’s not “potato potato”.

        • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          A million Uyghurs, whose only apparent crime is being Muslim, have been sent to labor camps and undergone forced sterilization.

          Do you know the sources of these claims? Because you’re repeating stuff that was first spread around by a German Christian nationalist (a euphemism) employed by a cia front group, which had already been debunked, and could be debunked by anyone looking at his methodology who is able to read mandarin.

          Why is this myth pushed so hard by western countries which slaughter Muslims by the millions, and are engaged in genocide against a majority Muslim population as we speak?

          Why do Muslim delegations visiting uniformly support the way China has treated its minority Muslim populations? Before you say sectarianism, investigate and realize that the delegations were intentionally multi-sectarian.

          Tiananmen Square started out as people peacefully protesting government corruption, and ended in the state murdering them.

          How violently do you think the US would have responded to US protestors trying to overthrow the government when they start burning and lynching to death unarmed soldiers? You can still find photos online of mutilated PLA soldiers corpses from june 2nd. 300 or so dead, including the soldiers that were killed, seems pretty light. Oh wait, the US military would never show up to a protest not armed to the teeth, silly me.

        • davel@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          A million Uyghurs, whose only apparent crime is being Muslim, have been sent to labor camps and undergone forced sterilization.

          The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing terrorist cells in Xinjiang, and once those efforts failed, it concocted and promoted a genocide narrative. Antony Blinken is still pushing this slop.

          The “forced sterilization” nonsense is especially silly when even NATOpedia says otherwise. As part of China’s affirmative action policies, the Uyghurs and other ethic minorities were excepted from the One-Child policy, and in Xinjiang they have grown in numbers relative to Hans as a result, and this happened similarly with other ethnic minorities.

          .
          The blueprint of regime change operations

          We see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.

          Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.

          The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.

          Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.

          Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).

          Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.


          Tiananmen Square started out as people peacefully protesting government corruption, and ended in the state murdering them.

        • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 month ago

          it’s against the law in China to even say you don’t agree with the law

          Your link doesn’t support this, and it’s nonsense on its face, anyway.

          “Do not oppose the basic principles established by the Constitution” is not “you can’t even say you disagree with the law,” as anyone familiar with the difference between a constitution and subordinate forms of laws (e.g., statutes) can tell you. And of course you obviously can say the constitution should be changed; how else do you think they amended it in 2018?

      • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        1 month ago

        You can make that exact same argument about dropping bombs.

        When countries are threatened and dropping bombs relieves that threat instead of increases it, then they do. It’s just that right now violent escalation doesn’t benefit China, so it stays in the realm of sabre rattling

        • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          Sure, if you know literally nothing about the military industrial complex and government capture and its role in creating war, and you want to buy into the propaganda that the US only attacks when it feels threatened.

          When countries are threatened and dropping bombs relieves that threat instead of increases it, then they do.

          Settler-brained-as-fuck idea about how conflict works

          • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 month ago

            This was not a defense of the USA you braindead idiot. I did not offer “feeling threatened” as an excuse for the USAs behaviour. The USA is threatened by the mere existence of successful countries that are not hypercapitalist (although tbf the tool used in this case is usually a coup, rather than bombs).

            Not all countries consider the same things to be threats.

        • hello_hello [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          No, not really. You’re just memory holing (or are ignorant of) the numerous clandestine operations done by the FBI and the CIA to destroy leftist movements of all stripes in the 20th century alone both abroad and at home. It’s an open secret that I suspect most americans are aware of but don’t want to actually deal with outside of TV.

          MLK had government agents attempt to blackmail him with letters that even told him to commit suicide and ruin his marriage with his wife, he was also beaten and jailed by state governments for his demonstrations. That’s just one example, but a very good one considering MLK’s character and what he means nowadays to many liberals.

          Currently, students across many universities are being targeted for Pro-Palestinian activism and there are laws in many states prohibiting the boycott of Israel for any reason. IDF soldiers are able to speak freely about their crimes but students in makeshift camps have their bodies beaten with batons, all for protesting against a genocide. Interestingly, China doesn’t have that problem, which is because contrary to your settler-colonial education, democracy can be practiced without constant violence and danger when the people’s demands and desires are actually being met.

          China’s human rights record is a world above any European/American “Free nation”. This cannot be denied or disproved.

          This isn’t even mentioning the amount of misinformation and hate speech that is regularly distributed in American news media and online platforms which silences voices of vulnerable groups. Trump didn’t come from thin air, he comes from the same arrogance you espouse here.

          Speech is silenced and censored in America, you’re just fine with it.