If you’re wondering how a browser extension got so much money to pay all these YouTubers for sponsorship, well, they’re not. They are literally stealing the money they paid the YouTubers right back from them by replacing their affiliate code with their own.
For people looking for replacements, Edge’s integratedauto coupon code works well enough. RetailMeNot does the same job and has also been around for a long time.
Why am I entirely not surprised that LMG knew what the fuck was going on, and didnt say a fuckin thing about it.
Made more public comments over legitimate criticism about his “just trust me, bro” warranty, than about honey being a out and out scam.
Never watched the channel, but I would guess that being tech-themed makes it a worse look that they promoted it for so long before catching the issue, so they were worried it would cast doubt on all other endorsements and tank the value of advertising with them.
I think coming out and pointing out what honey did would probably be the least damaging thing they’ve done in the past few years.
because holy fuck have they had some whoppers.
Wait. How is honey a scam? It’s purpose is to give people discounts they didn’t know about otherwise, and as far as I can tell, that’s exactly what it’s doing. Maybe it’s in a gray moral area, but a scam?
If you actually watched the video you’re currently commenting on you’d have an answer to your question.
But since you didn’t watch it I’ll give you a hint. It steals affiliate links taking money out of the pockets of those who are getting you a discount. It then uses those stolen affiliate links to take money out of your pocket as well by short changing you discounts (By telling you it found you a 10% coupon that is actually a 30% coupon and is pocketing the difference)
Okay, that is still giving someone a discount they didn’t otherwise know was possible. That isn’t a scam.
That is quite literally the definition of a scam on both ends lol
Honey is getting paid by shops to only serve you the coupons that Shop wants you to see, potentially keeping you from discovering a better deal on your own.
I have no idea how to find different discounts. If I’m getting a discount where I wouldn’t without the service, that isn’t a scam. Sure you can be more diligent and frugal if you know where to go, but I don’t, and I’m sure most people who use honey don’t either
Edit: I would like to add, I mostly buy things on my phone, and as far as I know Honey isn’t on android, so I have never used it. I do, often, look for discounts on things I’m buying and almost never succeed. I really hope Honey comes to Android, so I can start saving money.
Watch the video, dumbass
In the entire time I used Honey, I never once got a valid coupon code for literally anything. Pretty sure they scraped a ton of my browsing data though.
Are you aware that there are other chrome extensions that offer more coupons for a ton of online stores? Dontpayfull Automatic Coupons or Retailmenot always have plenty of coupons available. I don’t understand why everyone is stuck on Honey, which has been of very low quality in recent years.
I need to check this out, sounds pretty interesting to me. I never tried Honey because it seemed way too shady!
Same here. Newer found a single coupon for me. I uninstalled it a few months ago, not because I thought it was sketchy, but because I figured it must be better at finding discounts for things that I don’t shop for online, like shoes and pizzas or something.
My wife uses it and I’ve never seen it find a discount code. I assume it’s because we don’t buy enough online since money’s been pretty tight
I don’t shop for online, like shoes and pizzas
How do you shop for pizza not-online? Bro still going with pizzas brochures? Respect bro. If you top that off ny ordering by landline, it’d be perfect.
But yeah I had similar thoughts on Honey, never installed and now I think I definitely won’t. Thx 4 i Lemmy
Always wondered why YTers were complaining about lack of commissions and this explains most of it
Rent-seeking middlemen. This is the pinnacle of capitalism. Taking revenue while providing nothing is maximum efficiency. You can tell because it raises prices invisibly for everyone.
This is just a baby version of how credit card companies have placed a 1%-5% sales tax on the global economy. You might say “at least the CC companies provide a service”, but that tax get’s added no matter if your using a CC or not.
How does the tax get added if you don’t use a credit card?
Because enough people use credit cards that businesses have felt compelled to raise prices across the board to compensate.
When you get a credit card machine you sign an agreement saying something like transactions under X amount we, the credit card network company, will charge you 50c or any transactions over X amount we will charge your 1.5%.
Now as a business owner you raise prices 1.5% to cover this fee. If someone pays in cash, the extra 1.5% goes to you, if the customer pays with a card, the 1.5% goes to the card network .
Credit card fees get baked into the general price and are averaged between all the accepted cards. Hence cash transactions and lower-fee cards (debit, credit with less benefits) end up paying more of the share of the higher-fee cards.
It’s well explained in the following video: https://youtu.be/OceYCEexDqQ
The same price must be charged for products purchased with credit card or cash. Otherwise the card provider will withdraw their service from the retailer. So the credit card margin is added to every price.
card provider will withdraw
Dubious, as I regularly see gas stations with separate cash vs card prices. I’ve seen small businesses offer discounts for cash, too. And it’s not like visa is going to stop processing cards because walmart started offering cash prices. It’s just scare tactics. And for big companies, people who pay in cash offer bigger profit margins, so it’s not like they are incentivized to help the situation.
Actually true, but outdated. There was a massive decade long $30b legal fight that eliminated credit card network’s “anti-steering” provisions. Those were contractual terms that retailers signed that prohibited them from offering different prices for cash and card. Some retailers have responded by offering different prices, or otherwise adding a processing fee to card transactions as a result of that settlement.
And the vast majority did nothing.
Obviously it varies from business to business. Some may not want the hassle, some may see consumer sentiment against fees and not feel it’s worth the impact. Some are content to merely leave prices 3% (or more) higher.
Ultimately, very few businesses price things based on their costs…instead they price based on what they think people are willing to pay, or what the market will bear.
It’s also worth considering, at the scales of many of these businesses, accepting and handling cash is very much not a free option. If I’m a supermarket chain, I pay a card company a few percent and maintain my payment terminals and I magically get my income deposited daily directly in my preferred bank account. I’ve got some risk with stolen cards and chargebacks, but the big Chip Card and Mobile Wallet rollouts have dramatically limited my exposure to that liability.
With cash I have a substantial cost to handle, collect, count, and deposit at each location. I have concerns about counting accuracy, interval and external theft, counterfeit currency, purchasing change from my local bank (which typically has a fee assessed for businesses), etc.
In Italy it’s illegal to raise the price if you are using a credit card. The price needs to be the same no matter the payment method
Cause they can’t charge more for CC purchases so they raise the prices for everyone.
If you dont know how a business makes money, chances are its some shady stuff
Providing coupons on stuff for free, with zero ads? Thats pretty weird. Being Bought by PayPal for 4 BILLION dollars?!?!? There has to be some real sketchy shit.
While I agree with you, I think we should be careful about allowing the ignorant to be punished. It’s unreasonable for a non-tech-savvy person to be aware of all the ways a company can screw you. If they’re skeptical of everything, they can’t use anything
You mean a free extension that claims to give me discounts seemingly out of the goodness of their hearts that also has access to every website I go to in the browser where it is installed is not exactly on the level? I’m shocked…well…not that shocked.
I can’t believe that something too good to be true was too good to be true!
I tried it in a Firefox container once, while shopping for Xmas gifts. Not only did it want access to absolutely everything, none of the things I was looking to buy got any meaningful discount from it. Surely that would make one question how and why this thing is even still running, unless you don’t ask many questions.
People add extensions and then forget about them immediately, those are the true whales for these companies
Yeah the one that somehow has the money to get the biggest influencers to advertise them.
So the TL:DW version seems to be that honey changes or adds an affiliate link to get a commission on the sale. Similar programs like Capital One Shopping probably do the same thing.
Honestly, I don’t give a shit. I hate affiliate links no matter who gets them. They are the real scam.
Sounds link the real solution is to use it to identify potential coupon codes. Then clear cookies, resign in, and enter the code yourself. But it’s not like that yields a cheaper price, so I’m not even sure I care.
That’s just one issue, there’s also the fact that they partner with stores to give worse coupons than are actually available, by letting them get affiliate money when doing so. And then advertising that they ALWAYS give you the best codes, while getting paid by stores not to do so…
Theres also another video coming up with stores that have been screwed over by Honey getting hold of codes that are supposed to be hidden/limited. (though that’s honestly on the store, make your limited coupons actually limited to avoid this…) But he only teased this, there might be something wkse/more.
Slightly scummy on the first front, but then again, if I knew the better codes, I’d just use them rather than use a browser extension.
On the second front, that’s more the fault of companies not validating exclusive codes.
Sure but when you advertise we well find you the best price available and you don’t cause the company paid you to give this lower coupon it is fraud.
Reductive take that doesn’t really summarize
I’m torn on affiliate links. I’ve worked with people in sales before and it’s usually scammy unless the contract is done right (flat rate commission, no bonuses for selling “certain” items). I’ve seen really hard working and informative workers that are actually impossible to replace because of the knowledge of products and handling the customers needs without flair or extra cost. Will inform them of cheaper methods like how easy it is to purchase and install a cable versus paying someone $100 just to plug something in and flip a switch basically.
In those instances, I think the affiliate/commission is warranted. Same with some awesome youtube channels I’ve ran across where they test the shit out of several products in a category (Torque Test Channel is a good one). If I need the product and I’m buying it off their recommendation I will gladly use their affiliate link if I think about it beforehand.
Now, there are some channels that I’ve just taken the affiliate link to be basically a form of sponsorship and promotion. Sadly a lot of construction/trade channels end up falling into this eventually. Matt Risinger is probably one of the worse ones, but even lower end guys like The Stud Pack just become a “new product showcase” channel instead of DIY or instructional videos.
Matt Risinger’s channel was pretty good when he first started but the last few I’ve watched seem like nothing but commercials. I haven’t watched his stuff in a while so I gave it a shot on a recent video and remembered why I stopped watching.
I’m starting to think they put something toxic in the Zip System, or at least it’s like a gateway for corporate sponsorship cocaine. Once they start jerking themselves off talking about how great Zip is, it usually goes downhill from there (not bashing zip, just is always funny). I just recently gave up on him so it was interesting to see the decline. There would be a really great informative video, then several just commercialized crap.
The sad part is if any of these products are scammy, we probably won’t find out about it publicly. The company product will just slowly fade from existence, maybe a report done by a safety or efficiency board that will call it out and be dropped from code. There’s been plenty of building products that don’t hold up to their specs when scrutinized.
I work in telecom. Currently I’m working with the group that pre-wires large apartment complexes. When we first started doing this everyone was all about the Zip systems. I’ve noticed in the last 18 months they’re all back to normal OSB and house wrap. And it’s like “Zip- meh”. It was so hyped 6 years aggo. Risinger was one of the firat I swe hyping Zip and like you said its only gotten worse.
not a tldw
- Change affiliate tokens to their own
- Use clickbait and dark patterns to hide changing the tokens
- Have deals with vendors so they can set the max discount percentage
- Steal unknown discount codes from people entering them (Allegedly. I read it will be revealed in part 2 of that video)
Thank you for saying this. I totally agree with your process, and I’d do the very same every time, but something is wrong in an intangible way that makes me feel bad about doing it.
Is that it? Is the fact that the choice is between two entities I’ll never know or even recognize again, that offends my morals but satisfies my ethics? And, since Honey is doing something for me in giving me this code, should that not make me want to help them in return?
I’m not saying I’ve figured this out so much as saying thanks for enabling me.
Was it not obvious that the extension was doing that and scraping your browser data?
Scraping data yes Scraping affiliate links? No
as a consumer why should I care if I still get a discount ?
isn’t this influencer back office bullshit and not my problem ?
The coupons honey applies may not always be the best deal around. Honey works with online shops to only serve you the coupons that specific online shop wants you to see, causing you to be ripped off on occasion.
Simply put, there might be a 20% off coupon that can be applied to your cart, but because Honey is getting paid by the online shop, they are only going to show you at best the 5% off coupon. This makes Honey redundant, because neither Honey nor the online shop tell you when they are working together, which is why you can never trust honey to actually give you the best deal.
it is your problem because they’re stealing your money too.
famous person code gives you 30% off a product. honey tells you it’s 10% and keeps your 20% for its pockets.
at least that’s how I understood it.
I used honey for a few years. in that time i think it found me a working code like twice.
Do people not immediately google “How does X make money” or is that just me?
They do, but then a trusted “insider” youtuber or podcaster who they have a years long parasocial relationship with “signs off” on the product and the person says to themselves, “X person has integrity and they are very smart, they wouldn’t put their name on Y unless they did a lot of homework, so I don’t have to.”
And life is difficult, complicated and overwhelming, so you can’t really blame “normal” folks for putting the same faith they’d put into their tech saavy nephew into these personalities. The influencers should pause though and accept that if they can’t enthusiastically describe the reason a thing is actually legitimate, they should refrain from endorsing it or accept part of the blame for misleading people.
Fuck PayPal and its related entities and all executives past, present and future. And I guess fuck you too now, Will Ferrell - you cosigned Mel Gibson in whatever the fuck that daddy movie series was and now you’re the face of these people? The “PayPal mafia” (cringe) literally just bought the US election. I know you need to bankroll a lot of family trips to Sweden, but you h ave too much obviously dirty money now, Will. Hard to chuckle at your comedies now, and that’s a bummer.
I didn’t Google it. I just figured, if it found me a 10% discount, the vendor would also send Honey some % of what I paid for the product.
It is about Honey hijacking the referrals, which wasn’t known until a youtuber made a video about it (or at least not widely known)
Yes, they’ve been doing this since even before PayPal bought them. This is how they’ve always made money.
No need to do even that. If a simple piece of software becomes a company, it’s 99% a scam.
The problem is that a lot of these startups don’t make money. The enshittification comes later, first stage is just burning through VC cash to establish market share.
I have, for some businesses I’ve wondered about. For example, I use the virtual cycling platform Zwift, which charges a monthly or annual fee to use. The biggest competitor, Rouvy, also charges a fee. Makes sense, it takes money to develop these things, buy and maintain servers, etc. The income and expenses are obvious. (Zwift does offer bike frames and wheels from real world brands; I assume the brands paid something to be included.)
Enter MyWhoosh. Free to use, so the income side is unclear. From some searching, they claim they’ll generate revenue via ads - but I doubt that would generate enough to support the platform.
The company is based out of Abu Dhabi, so I assume it’s really sportswashing - they’re just dumping a bunch of money into it and not really caring that it isn’t making money (at least for now).
I’m sticking with Zwift (in part because I have it working under Linux and Wine).
It’s kind of ridiculous how long it has taken for people to realise that this is happening… where did people think that their referrals had gone after they cratered?
Thats where I’m at, I thought it was fairly obvious it was doing this and theres a hundred extensions like this. Are real people surprised this is how it works?
I heard about this extension years ago. I wasn’t always suspicious about it, but I still never used it. I can’t say I’m surprised that it turned out to be a scam.
I’d rather pay full price honestly than support stuff like this.
Brian Dunning (Skeptoid podcast) went to prison for wire fraud for doing a similar stunt with EBay. Not sure what makes this any different.
What makes it different is that it was perpetrated by Paypal, so nobody will see any consequences whatsoever.
I just bought some local honey. Don’t know what this shit is, hopefully I never will.
